Transcript EP 308 – Creating a New Paradigm for Female Leadership with Jen Szpigiel

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Dr. Taz: Welcome back, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Super Woman Wellness, where we are all determined to bring you back to your super-powered self. So many of you are truly superwomen. You’re running around, you’re doing your thing, you’re juggling, and it can get exhausting. But not only is it exhausting, you can lose your way. I say this because I have lived it and I know how this feels, which is why I am so thrilled to bring on today, Jen Szpigiel. Jen, welcome to the show. We’re thrilled to have you. I’m going to brag about you for just a second and then we’ll talk about so many different things that we have in common. But as the founder and CEO of Becoming Iconic, Jen uses her expertise as a global business and lifestyle mentor to help entrepreneurs grow profitable and have aligned businesses and lives. She’s known as a mentor who supports you in ultimate fulfillment. She truly believes and has supported thousands of entrepreneurs to have the freedom to spend their days where they want, doing what they want, and with who they want. Goodness.

Jen Szpigiel: Yeah.

Dr. Taz: I don’t know if I’m there yet, but anyhow, she’s here to teach you exactly how to create your freedom and become iconic. Welcome to the show, Jen. We are thrilled to have you here.

Jen Szpigiel: Oh, I’m so thrilled to be here. Thank you so much. I appreciate that.

Dr. Taz: You are welcome. So I’m just curious, I’d love to know your story. How was this brand born? How did you even want to get into global leadership and business development? That in itself, I’ve learned is usually a story. So share some of that with us if you don’t mind.

Jen Szpigiel: That’s the truth, isn’t it? There’s always these incredible stories behind what people walk into today. I always say you’re walking into chapter 12 of Jen’s life. There’s been a lot of chapters before that. So I come from a marketing background. I went to school for fashion merchandising and then after school and back to school… After school and back to school for public relations. And I had this big dream of running and being the editor of a lifestyle magazine. That was my big dream and it didn’t come to fruition. I ended up going into marketing for technology, so a complete 180 from fashion. Fashion to technology is a big switch, but I ended up loving my career. It was so fulfilling. It was exciting. I was working with people globally. I have a big passion for people. So to learn about culture, learn about differences, learn about commonalities was so important to me.

So I have this beautiful experience through work of getting to know people and the world. And then I had this baby and I had her when I was quite young and I looked her in the eyes and realized that I’d had no idea what to do in motherhood. I loved my career, but now I had this child and I knew I didn’t want to miss out on her life. So I felt like I had to choose and I chose to leave my career to be a stay-at-home mom and I’m forever grateful to her dad for the opportunity to do that. And I raised her and her brother, and now I’m a mom of four. I’ve raised my kids at home and been home in a work from home mom ever since. But in leaving my career, I really lost a big piece of who I was.

Dr. Taz: I want to stop you there for just a minute because that in itself is a really hard decision for women, right? It’s a really hard place. And I’m curious what was going on in your mind then? Because you liked your career, right? You enjoyed your career.

Jen Szpigiel: I did.

Dr. Taz: How were you able to sift through stay-at-home versus enter the madness of juggling between all of it? How did you make that decision?

Jen Szpigiel: Well, to be honest with you, and in all fairness and transparency, the decision was made for me. My husband was relocated for his job. And in that relocation, it made it a simpler decision. And I also thought that was “the best decision.” That sort of sacrificial living, which is where Becoming Iconic is born from these moments in my life where I literally thought as a woman, I had to sacrifice a piece of me in order to fulfill something else and this is what I want to eradicate because I really did believe that and I stayed home with her and I was completely lost. I had no sense of being other than mom. And there’s so much more to me like there’s so much more to you like there’s so much more to any woman. And so entrepreneurship really sort of came into my life gently was this whisper and then the thought of maybe I could do this. Maybe I could build something from home while raising these kids. And that was the spark of where I am today.

Dr. Taz: Oh, okay. I love that. Yeah, I think it’s a really hard spot for women, right? And I agree, so many of them feel like they’re sacrificing, but end up on the other side of that sacrifice kind of feeling very jaded and kind of left out so to speak. So I love that entrepreneurship was the answer for you. I’ve seen it become the answer for other women as well. What kind of happens next?

Jen Szpigiel: Well, next is the beauty of entrepreneurship as a mama four now and a woman where I realized I was never seeking a balance. A balance to me is a bit of a myth. And I feel like the seeking of balance is what makes us feel out of balance. So what I mean by that is we’re always in guilt or feeling like we should be somewhere else when we’re seeking balance. So if I’m working, I would feel bad that I wasn’t on the floor playing with the kids. And then I would go sit on the floor to be with the kids and I’d feel guilty that I wasn’t working my business. And so I’d find myself kind of this fish out of water flip-flopping back and forth and back and forth and never feeling fulfilled. And I have this understanding deep inside where I think I’m chasing the wrong thing here. I think that I’m actually far more capable than I’m giving myself credit for. And what if I actually started seeking harmony? Meaning when I’m doing something like business or I’m spending time with my kids, I give my full presence and that gets my full attention. So I’m more effective, I’m more attentive, and the results in terms of relationship with my children or the results in my business expand and grow because I’m not half in, half out.

Dr. Taz: I love that. So many of us try that and I’ve gotten better about that over the years, but are still not a hundred percent able to get there. What are your secrets in terms of staying present in those moments and how do we get rid of the sacrificial mentality that many people have? What’s the best way to get rid of that?

Jen Szpigiel: So there’s a couple of things I’d love to point out. The first thing is the decision, the decision to no longer participate. I believe as women we’re shifting into this new paradigm of leadership, and I mean leadership in our lives, in our health, in business or career, we have never in history had this much opportunity and we have never been more awake. And so for me, there’s a bit of a contrast because I’m so excited to be a woman and blaze a trail and pioneer for the generations to come. Yet I don’t have that model for me, those generations ahead of me that did what we are currently doing. So it’s a really exciting time, but it’s also a little bit fragile. We’re kind of failing forward if I could say that. So the decision for me was to no longer look at it as a sacrifice, to step out of martyrs, to step out of this victim hood, to step out of this unrealistic urgency with everything.

Like, I’ve got to build my business, but the kids… I got to look after the kids. And they were fighting one another constantly, at least in my mind. So I released that. I just decided I’m not participating in this anymore. And what if I actually witnessed capacity? What if I actually saw what I was made of and stopped boxing myself constantly? Like I only have 24 hours and there’s only one of me. And all these things I would say, what if I ripped that open and thought there is only one of me, but let’s see what she’s made of. Let’s see what she can accomplish in a day. So that would be my first big piece of advice is just make the decision to no longer participate.

Dr. Taz: To no longer participate. And it sounds negative… In like the negative dialogue that we always have with ourselves. So is that the principle of eradicating this sort of idea of sacrificial living? How do the women out there overcome that idea that they had to sacrifice and not… That was our mother’s lesson, right? I feel like I saw my mom live that and you have to sacrifice for the family, for the kids to be able to get this unit to be kind of where it needs to be. So how do we kind of undo that thinking so to speak?

Jen Szpigiel: It’s like these little moments of bravery and courage and trying. So for example, what I realized in building the business was I wasn’t putting my children aside in order to achieve those goals. And as a matter of fact, when I was going after these goals, and especially from home, they were witnessing their mom overcome, they were witnessing their mom in frustration, they were witnessing their mom cry, and they’re witnessing their mom celebrate. And that example was likely… If I could be honest, probably one of the best gifts I’ve ever given my children is the example of tenacity, the example of grace, the example of patience, the example of forgiveness. And they’ve witnessed that being in the home with me. And when you start these little experiments with yourself, what if I actually saw what I was capable of? You start to see how you unravel and reveal yourself and how everybody else around you starts to benefit. But there’s a level of trust in that. And I know it’s easier said than done, but trust is built by doing it before the feeling. So you’re not going to feel confident and ready first, right? It’s doing it and then all of a sudden you’re like, “Huh, that worked out.”

Dr. Taz: And this is going to be a controversial question and I hope I don’t get mail from this, but is the stay-at-home mom model dead?

Jen Szpigiel: Well, no. I just believe we have a lot of opportunity now to make that what it is for us as an individual. Becoming Iconic was born because I realized iconic can mean an iconic stay-at-home mom. If there is a woman out there right now who says, I am so fulfilled, there’s not another thing in my life I’d rather do than be home and bake and do arts and crafts with my kids. And that fills her spirit and soul and those kids are benefiting, I say, be the best, most exceptional mom you can be. But for many of us, we can flirt now with ideas. We can kind of toss around some what-ifs. And again, we’ve never had that in history in online space. I mean, there’s really nothing you can’t do anymore. So I think right now we just have a choice and it’s just a matter of what fulfills you, what brings you to life, and going after that seeking it.

Dr. Taz: Yeah, I think that’s such a great point. And I’ll tell you from where I sit where I get to meet with women every day, right? They’ve all had different journeys. They’ve had different paths. It’s interesting. I feel like they’re… And I’m also running a business that is all women. I think we have two male employees maybe. So it’s interesting to sit in that seat, but also to be a mom and to be somebody who’s had to make these choices along the way. And then also to see the medical fallout from choice… The different choices everybody makes. I would say that there is a gift in being able to be present with your children, but there’s also a gift in you as a mother feeling good. And that feeling good is often connected not just to health, everybody thinks it’s to some fancy health plan, but very much connected to being in control.

And so what happens for a lot of stay-at-home moms is that they lose control. They lose control of the family’s finances, they lose control of decision-making power, they lose control of their schedules, they lose control of their self-care time. And so that loss of control I think is sort of the cross to bear for the stay at home mom. So if there’s a way for them to reassert control in any of those dimensions and then still maintain presence for their children, I think that’s the magic. So that’s magic. And so I think about what I see in the exam rooms… Bringing this back to the actual exam room is that many women, when they can’t do what you’ve done and find their choice that works for them and stay in a place where they don’t have control, they get sick. I mean, that’s when we see anxiety and depression and sometimes not just the mental health component, but even the hormone issues, the inflammation, all sorts of stuff.

Because fundamentally, if we don’t feel good, we can’t do good for ourselves or for anyone else. So I think it’s such an interesting battle. Now, the business angle of it, and this is where I feel like that’s the next challenge of all of this, is the workplace has to accommodate, if we’re going to believe in family, if we’re going to believe in children, then even I’m challenged a bit when one of my favorite providers wants to take six months of maternity leave, I’m like, “Oh my god, how are we going to run this place?” So it’s a challenge from a business standpoint, but I think one that we as business owners also have to rise up to. So I think there has to be that flexibility all the way around. If as a culture and a community we’re going to keep kids front and center without sacrificing women and sacrificing everyone’s help. So that’s just me being on my soapbox, but anyhow.

Jen Szpigiel: It’s so good. And I want to actually reiterate your point because this is a story maybe someone would be able to feel. I actually hemorrhaged three years ago and when I was hemorrhaging, I wasn’t quite sure what was going on with me, but I ended up going to the hospital and needing blood transfusions. It got quite severe. And I remember an OB-GYN walking in and I don’t know her name and I never saw her since I honestly believe she was an earth angel. She came into me and she said, “I don’t think this hemorrhage has anything to do with your physical being.” She said, “Is there something you need to let go of? Is there something that you have been boxing yourself into? Is there something you’re denying in yourself? I’d love you to consider that.” And she walked back out. I know. So first of all, from a medical perspective, that’s not a typical response to someone hemorrhaging.

And secondly, she really sparked me. It was the very thing I needed to hear at that moment because she was right. I really wanted to build a company. No longer did I want to build a personal brand. Personal brand was so successful and I was comfortable as a mom and a wife and a business owner. It was comfortable, it was successful. So why would I disrupt that and make a pivot? But it was in that very moment where I decided that the what if is stronger than staying in this comfort. So just to reiterate that point where it can actually physically manifest in our bodies if we’re denying our souls calling and purpose and mission. And so I really believe that to be true.

Dr. Taz: Yeah. And that’s something I see all the time and I’m always trying to relay that message. And sometimes people get it and sometimes they think that I’ve lost it and I’ve gone too woo woo, but I’m like, someday it’ll register. Someday it’ll get there and I’ll get there, right? I’m on the same journey with everybody else. I know that there are times that I have that sacrificial mentality and I know it doesn’t serve me well. So I’m constantly trying to retrain my own brain that way. But there’s something else you bring up and I want to talk about your… There’s so much to talk about. I want to talk about your book too, but this is fascinating to me. How do you lead yourself and your family as a wealthy woman? Talk about wealth as a woman in a family and that dynamic.

Jen Szpigiel: I had this beautiful dream just the other night about this. So I’m going to give it as the answer because I’m still processing it, but I feel like I’m further along enough that we could chat about it. I was in and out of sleep and I heard to myself, beautiful and delicious food is not attached to how much money is in your bank account, necessarily. A healthy body, meaning that I’m caring for myself, I’m getting out in nature, I’m doing something to serve my body every day, does not mean I have to have a certain amount of money in the bank. To be completely present in my marriage and to want to pursue intimacy and connection and care and understanding does not equate itself to how much money I have in the bank. And I think especially lately, we’ve really started to believe that a wealthy woman means she’s hit seven figures or she’s hit multiple six figures, whatever the number is. And although I do believe money gives us opportunity and different experiences, to me a wealthy woman is someone who walks through her day and moves through her day with so much intention.

To see beauty. Instead of looking at her phone as she walks to the car, she looks up and notices the blue sky. She turns up the music when a song sings to her heart, she kisses her children to sleep and sniffs them just a little bit longer than usual. She cares about everything, the details and not in a frantic way, in a very peaceful way where it’s like this gift of life. So for me, that’s what I decided to model for my family because the moment I hit seven figures in my business, I realized, yes, I have more access. Yes, I feel peaceful and stable and steady, but I didn’t really change. The desired feeling that I always had remained. And that was peace and safety and love and connection. So for me, a wealthy woman, we need to make sure we look at that for what it is.

Now, how that pertains to family is I am the sole breadwinner in my family. My husband is home. He has more of the parental role at this point, meaning that he helps me get the kids lunch where it’s very, very mutual. We’re doing things together. But he’s definitely hands-on in parenting and I’m so grateful for him because it’s a lot of the reason why I can do the things I do. Right now he’s watching a movie with the kids so I can record this interview and podcast. So he is a pivotal component to the success, but we’ve made that decision. Now it comes with complexity. Because we’re not raised to have the man at home and the woman making the money. And it makes my parents very uncomfortable.

Dr. Taz: I’m sure. I am sure. And then navigating that dynamic, have there been any challenges there?

Jen Szpigiel: There have been. There’s been moments of ego, so moments of resentment on my behalf, the responsibility that I hold. But today I was talking to one of my mentors and I said, I had a realization. I chose this responsibility, I chose the circumstance. Together we made the decision for him to come home. He was so unfulfilled in his job, it was draining him. It was also physically affecting him. And we made that decision. So I chose this responsibility. So I cannot turn that around now and use that in my favor. Instead, let’s celebrate it. And that’s practice. And some days I’m better than others. Some days I feel the responsibility and it’s heavy. And there’s other days where I dance through it and think, wow, look at what we’re doing and how beautiful this all is. So it’s not about perfection for me, it’s about progression. But it is an interesting dynamic that I believe the modern-day woman is just now navigating.

Dr. Taz: Again, these are observations. And I’ve been the breadwinner at different points. And I guess kind of now too, although my husband definitely we’re both working and working hard. But it’s been interesting because I feel like with women, when you were raised with a different model and there’s a different story in your head, it’s very easy for women… I’ve seen it not just in myself, but other women to almost be angry about it. They’re angry that they’re the breadwinner. Even if they made the choice to be the breadwinner, they’re angry and in some form or fashion, they almost hold it against their partners, right? And they bring that energy in. And I’ve seen the relationship then start to crumble a little bit under that anger. So I don’t know why that happens, but I think it’s, again, not being intentional and then making decisions and then not being able to see those decisions all the way through. My husband and I debate this point all the time, he firmly believes that men are wired to provide and wired to do that. We are wired to nurture. And then when we have that fundamental innate nature and we go against it, that’s what creates the conflict. So that’s his theory. I don’t know if you would agree with that or not.

Jen Szpigiel: Well, I agree, disagree. So I believe actually what we’re realizing is we both have both.

Dr. Taz: Yeah, I agree.

Jen Szpigiel: Right? Men have never been given the opportunity to be the nurturers. They’ve had to provide.

Dr. Taz: He actually might be a better nurturer than I am, especially when the kids were little. So somewhat true. I do think we both have both. I think that’s very true.

Jen Szpigiel: Yeah. And see, it’s like that sacrificial thing again. It’s like, well, if I am the nurturer, I can’t be the provider. But what if you get to be both? Because I feel like that’s what I get to be. I don’t feel like I’m just the nurturer. I’m also the provider and it’s really beautiful. Yes, it has, again, complexities. It has this… It’s almost like friction sometimes, because again, we’ve never really done this but I really look at my husband and there’s times where he steps up to the plate and he is getting things done and making sure everything’s running smoothly and nurturing, bringing me a beautiful glass of water with a freshly squeezed lemon. And guess what? I do the same things for him.

Dr. Taz: Right. I love that. And I love that model as being the model of the future for women and for men. Because I think that sort of duality and equality is what keeps both partners very fulfilled and very satisfied. This is equally important. Fulfillment in all five pillars of your life, what’s happening? What are those five pillars? What would you identify?

Jen Szpigiel: So this could be an interesting conversation and debate as well, similar to you and your husband talking about the roles. I believe we all share the same five pillars or values in our lives. We may call them different things, but I think this is where we all have a shared experience. So to me that’s spirituality, connection, love, being in our essence, being faithful, trusting, forgiving, all of those things. So that’s the first. The second one is relationships. So being in a relationship that feels fulfilling, that you challenge each other, that you give your all. Again, come back to forgiveness. Third one is health, which I know you teach very well, but health is a shared value for us all. If we don’t have our health, we don’t get to be great in our relationships or for our businesses, et cetera. And the fifth one is to me, I call it business.

This is where people will call it different things. But to me, I look at it as how are you creating impact? How are you contributing to the world to make it better? So to me, it comes through the form of business. For someone, it may be a career, maybe being a doctor, whatever that is, how are you contributing? The fifth one to me is wealth. And wealth in that perspective that I gave you of enjoying beauty and soaking and pleasure of your everyday life. So those five things to me, if we can pay attention to them and be intentional around them, I believe our life becomes richer.

Dr. Taz: Oh, I like that. I love your turning wealth around on its head to not be money and numbers and bank accounts but how you experience your day. What if we all walked around thinking that? We’d probably be a lot happier.

Jen Szpigiel: We would be. I remember my mentor saying to me once, well Jen, what if you don’t become an eight-figure business owner? I remember being like, “Oh, cancel, cancel. How could you put that out to the universe? Why would you say that?” But she was challenging me of what if, what if this is it? Would you be happy? And it was such a challenging question for me because I am an achiever and I love goal-setting and I love moving forward. But she brought me back to the present to realize my goodness, am I ever blessed, and is my life ever beautiful? And if this was it, it would be perfect.

Dr. Taz: I just arrived at that because I’ve always been, next, next, next, next, next let’s go. Like we got stuff to do. And recently, I was forced to slow down a little bit and I’m like, things are really great. Why am I pushing so hard? What am I pushing for? So it has given me pause. And I’ve actually recruited a mentor recently too, which I’ve never done in all these years. And it’s been such a great reflector. I know you’re a mentor and it sounds like you have a mentor. What’s the role of mentorship for women that are trying to be wealthy and liberated and all these ideas? Talk to us a little bit about that dynamic in our relationship.

Jen Szpigiel: Mentorship to me is something I couldn’t imagine my life without. I really couldn’t. And it comes in different forms. Sometimes people have a mentor that is a family member, someone that is wise and has lived a big life and has these lessons to provide and give their hindsight. I always say my hindsight gets to be somebody else’s foresight. I have had a bumpy, bumpy road, and I believe the overcoming and the times I’ve stood up over and over again has cultivated this resilience. And so when I mentor women and I do work with women specifically, there’s a lot of times that just… There’s a blind spot, there’s a gap, there’s a crack in belief. There’s this feeling of, “I get it, Jen, but could that be for me?” I hear you say, I can be a great mom and grow a business or be great in my career. I see that for you. But I have never lived that way. I’ve never felt that. Can I attain that? And so mentorship is what you… Just like what you said in the mirror, someone to hold it up, to remind you of your potential, to remind you of your capacity, to give you tactical tips and tools to put into practice to start becoming more of what you desire. And so it’s invaluable to me.

Dr. Taz: Wow. And what are some of the biggest blind spots you hear from some of your female clients? And I know anyone out there listening might be like, “Maybe I need a mentor. What are my blind spots?” Are there patterns that you see over and over again? What are some of the biggest ones you see as you work with women?

Jen Szpigiel: I do. I’ve spoken about it gently already in our discussion, but it’s worth bringing up again, is this unnecessary urgency? This feeling like we’ve got to acquire it all today. And I’m failing if I don’t have the success or at least the evidence of success yet. And this urgency to me is a vibration. And I believe in your life, it just feeds the very thing that you don’t want. It affects relationships because you’re always on edge thinking you should be doing something else. It affects your business because people that are in your world feel that desperation, feel that grippiness, and go, “Oh goodness, I don’t know if she is who she says.” They may not be able to even think about it, but they feel it. And so it doesn’t really bring the response we’re looking for. So that would be the biggest, is having them breathe and remember that rest and patience is as important as action producing all of the things. But again, we’ve been taught rest… Who has time to rest? You’re lazy if you rest, especially women. I remember my mom and still to this day, if she comes over and I’m sitting on my couch, she’ll say, “You’re sitting on your couch. There’s a thousand things to do. What are you doing?” Like that feeling of go, go, go, go, go, go in the hustle culture. So that’s something I really love disrupting-

Dr. Taz: My stuff away from me and be like, sit. We’re going to sit. This was a while ago. I couldn’t sit. I couldn’t watch a movie. I couldn’t watch a show. And it was like I had to learn how to sit. But anyhow, so that’s a big one. Any others that you’ve seen over and over again?

Jen Szpigiel: I do think there’s a lot of women… And not all of us have done a great job that have been pioneering, but I do think there’s a lot of women who fear what they will leave behind if they actually go and pursue their desires. So what I mean by that is, will my marriage be okay?

Will my friendships remain? Will people accept this? I really want to do this. I know I’m meant to do this, but I’m so afraid that by stepping into this, that I will be leaving this behind. And so maybe I could provide some advice if someone listening in right now just got goosebumps because that’s a concern, let’s give them the benefit of the doubt. Let’s give them the trust that they will maybe not get it at first, maybe not even support it at first, but in your patience and you following through and doing the things you said you were going to do and giving them that attention and love that you have and always have given them that maybe they’ll catch up. Maybe they’ll catch a glimpse of that vision with you. And if they never do, that’s okay too. This is your journey. As long as that respect and that foundation remains in those relationships and some will, some will fall away.

But that’s not necessarily even a bad thing. I think we believe that if we have a friendship… We lost touch with someone, something went wrong. And I think, But what if that was just a beautiful chapter? ” What if nothing went wrong?” And you just get to close that chapter with this beautiful bow and say, thank you so much for your companionship and your friendship and your support and all the laughs we had. And it’s just complete, nothing went wrong. That I can see them, I can see a physical release of like that’s possible. And then they start to create that courage to move forward.

Dr. Taz: Oh, my goodness, this is amazing. So all of these things, losing that sense of urgency, losing fear, indulging in the day being present, is that what defines a liberated woman? How would you define a liberated woman?

Jen Szpigiel: Oh, I just did a post on this and I’m passionate about this one. So I have a term for liberated women, and I call it peaceful confidence. And I’d love to share the visual because it is a visual. So when I think of a liberated woman, I think of walking into a party and the woman that walks in and she’s loud and announces that she’s here, and maybe people even gravitate towards her. She’s just one of those ones that people think, “Oh, I love her energy. She’s so fun.” But that doesn’t necessarily mean she’s confident and peaceful and liberated. And oftentimes for me, that is an inner child saying, “Make me feel seen, make me feel important.” It’s also not the woman that walks into the party and says, “Oh, I’m just going to sneak in and I’ll just make my way through the crowd and go sit at the back and wait for someone to come and acknowledge me.” That’s not a liberated woman. A liberated woman walks in the door and her sheer presence speaks for itself. She has this peacefulness, this confidence. Her chin is up, her shoulders are rolled back, but she’s warm and compassionate, she glows and people go, “Who’s that?”

That to me is a liberated woman. She doesn’t need to prove herself because her presence is proof. She doesn’t need to scream all of the accolades and things she’s accomplished because she just doesn’t need to, they’re accomplishments. But that’s yesterday. She just has this incredible ability to move people with her energy. And that to me is liberated.

Dr. Taz: Oh, my goodness. I think that’s where we’re going to have to stop. That was beautiful. I should strive to be a liberated woman, I’m going to work on it for sure. It’s a work in progress. That’s the one truth I know for sure. Well, this has been incredible. I love this conversation. I think it’s been enlightening and hopefully, if you’re out there listening today, you really get a sense of where we need to be when we’re talking about our lives and mapping our lives and our relationships and getting rid of a lot of the noise. I think that’s the word for it. It’s a lot of noise that I think we inflict upon ourselves that is probably unnecessary and just blocking us from the direction forward. So thank you so much for joining us. If anyone listening wants to connect with you, what’s the best way for them to do that?

Jen Szpigiel: They could come to Becoming Iconic. So it’s Becoming Iconic across all platforms. It’s pretty easy. I do have a podcast as well, and I do have a magazine, so if someone’s interested in kind of hanging out and learning about lifestyle and business and being a liberated woman, that’s for free and it’s available on my Instagram, in my bio. But yeah, I’d love to connect if someone feels called to reach out. And thank you again for having me in this opportunity.

Dr. Taz: Oh, this has been incredible. I’ve loved it. And thank you again for joining us and for everybody else, I hope you enjoyed this episode just as much as I did. Don’t forget to rate and review it and share it with your friends. I will see you guys next time.